Hm. The majority of people believe in souls. Even those who aren't religious are inclined to believe there is something "more" to us than the biological. Ego, perhaps, could be another word for it.
[ what is the ego if not the dividing line between the base instinct and the inner voice of reason? living in a way that fulfills both is how people fight with their ego, achieve their desires, and carve the path to the life they most want. it isn't illogical at all. noa spares a glance to kaiser cutting his fish into ready made pieces, unsure what to make of it but not thinking it has any deep meaning either, as he chews his small cut of brain. only when his mouth isn't full does he circle back to the earlier question. ]
The religious community was a benefit, a safety net of sort, but not what I meant. It was lucky because she didn't believe in abortion. A person without those religious beliefs might have chosen to terminate the pregnancy given the poverty we lived in.
[ if this were anybody else saying it, kaiser would be doing his best to maintain as neutral an expression as possible, while perhaps making a noise that could vaguely be interpreted as sympathetic to be safe and blandly polite about the observation being made. but because this is noa, and it's understood that the two of them share a certain commonality in background even though kaiser hasn't directly admitted nearly as much, kaiser lets out a mildly amused scoff. he gets it, more or less. ]
A gift from god, huh? [ don't look at him... he's not self-aware. ] Well, that wouldn't be wrong.
[ purely objectively speaking, of course. kaiser finishes up cutting up his food and takes his first bite, chewing slowly before swallowing. he doesn't have a particularly refined palate, and doesn't have a strong interest in eating for enjoying it, but even he can tell that this a cut above his usual meals in terms of quality and depth of flavor, so he'll pause to enjoy it for a moment before continuing. ]
Is that something you've thought about deeply? [ again, not that kaiser should talk, really. it just caught him a little off-guard, so he has to comment. ]
I gave it more thought when I was younger. Nowadays, it's occasional white noise.
[ there's no proof his mother would have chosen a different path if not for her religion, only an awareness that her beliefs played a part in the decision. he isn't going to say that kaiser is both mature enough to hear this and trusted enough to not gab about it. speaking this openly on a topic many would consider taboo should carry that implication alone.
noa makes the last cut into his meal, forking one of two remaining pieces. ]
I don't think a soul is something we are born with. If it exists at all, it's something that forms through the culmination of our experiences. No one chooses to be born, but we can choose how to live the life we're given. That's a great privilege -- one often overlooked.
Well, yes... people who wonder about these things are probably in a position where they'll never actually have an answer to the questions in their mind.
[ children who don't wonder about that can take the fact that they were wanted by their parents as granted, kaiser thinks. he also spent some span of his life wondering about the circumstances of his birth before concluding that there's nothing that he'd get out of pondering it any further. the fact of the matter is that he's alive, whether or not anybody wanted it to happen, and now he has to make that everybody else's problem.
that is to say, kaiser also feels no need to say that he understands to keep all of this in confidence. a german boy in a glass house shouldn't throw the first rock, after all. ] ]
... Then, from your perspective, that calf certainly didn't have a soul. Because it didn't have a single true choice on how to live its life, a soul could never have developed in it.
[ it's almost tempting to empathize with the calf, but kaiser won't. because he does have a choice — there is a certain awareness in the back of his mind that he has enough money, along with looks and fame, that he doesn't have to continue playing football, if he truly didn't want to. therefore, by either of their definitions, kaiser concludes: he has a soul, the calf did not. ]
[ a faint laugh breathes out of his nose as he chews, both because he agrees and because it's funny how true it is. a question argued and debated for hundreds of years with no answer only exists to be discussed, never solved. people can argue for argument's sake and that's fine, but he doesn't think those who don't believe in a soul are any more or less right than those who do believe in it. both sides are smugly attached to their hypothesis, and neither side has evidence to support their claim.
two theories clashing without a shred of proof between them is the equivalent of watching two terrible football teams play against each other. manchester united versus arsenal? they're both simply terrible!
jokes aside, he never had the luxury of worrying about whether he had a soul or not as a child. he was too busy thinking about if he should either save money to buy warm clothes for the winter or if he should replace his worn out sneakers. as an adult, he has to worry about paying his taxes and kicking the ball better than kids half his age because he'll get called washed if he doesn't score at least once a game.
he washes the food down with a sip of wine, considering kaiser's conclusion only for a beat before realizing he has no choice but to agree. ]
That's right. It had a pitiable existence, bred for consumption and sold for parts. Though I'm sure I would be called a bastard by parents who lost their infants to tragic circumstance. [ he shrugs and brings the last piece to his mouth. yet it doesn't go in before he adds- ] There's a great deal of tragedy and suffering in the world. It isn't a contest, but one must have perspective.
[ it is, perhaps, the equivalent of watching man utd vs. the spurs in today's europa league finals. or as it has been called... the "L classico". ]
You get called a bastard by so many, what's a few more?
[ kaiser smiles, twisted and wry, yet also relaxed and genuine — it's not funny, it really isn't. but for some reason, this brief repartee fills him with a kind of malicious amusement.
truth be told, kaiser has never thought of his life as particularly difficult. most things that he's gone through have felt like something that simply had to be endured, from his perspective. to be passive and weak-willed was a survival mechanism; by the definition they've landed on, michael kaiser's soul wasn't actually born until 15 or so, when he realized that he has a choice, he has something he values, and that he might actually be strong. the difference between him and the calf, though, is that kaiser's soul could have been born far earlier or later, if at all — the calf, on the other hand, never had a choice.
kaiser has encountered tragedy, he's encountered suffering — as he knows noel noa has as well. yet the man before him has refused to allow either to define him by the rest of the world, and kaiser is determined to do the same.
he picks up the wine bottle and tops off noa's glass. sit there and drink while i catch up on the pace of the meal! is, perhaps, the message being sent. ]
Alright, so how about this. Where do you think that the soul goes after the body dies?
[ pardon him as he drops some conversational bait to give him a chance to start eating. it's rather conspicuous when he's got most of his entree still on his plate and noa doesn't... ]
[ what's a bit of light rain when it falls over the ocean? noa had countless admirers and in turn countless enemies - those he knows and those who keep their bitterness under lock and key. neither matter very much to him.
he watches kaiser top him off with disinterest and only a touch of annoyance. mainly because he was almost finished with his glass and didn't want a refill. would a protest have stopped his dinner partner? it's about as likely or unlikely as heads or tails. if there's a message sent with it, noa is electing to ignore it by not taking a sip.
(it's in this moment as well that he realizes how little kaiser has eaten. has he really just been watching him eat fried brain while they debate philosophical matters? even after all these years, kaiser's odd whims perplex him.) ]
I don't think it goes anywhere. It doesn't need to -- without a vessel, a soul may as well be air. People concern themselves too much with the notion of afterlife out of ego.
[ he may have been raised catholic but that doesn't mean he's a good god fearing man. ]
[ fulfilling the stomach comes second to fulfilling the mind, always. but while kaiser's default eating pace is rather slow, he is also skilled at very quickly and discreetly eating — and he already did all the work of cutting up his meal into bite-sized pieces, so he manages to put an impressive fraction of fish down in the moments it takes for noa to reply. one might argue he should consider enjoying the flavor more, but kaiser thinks he enjoys it enough without chewing a few times extra. ]
... That's a question people have been debating for centuries, whether the mind and body are separate or one. And if it's one, whether mind precedes body, the other way around, or if there's a completely separate substance that precedes both.
[ he takes a sip of wine. he does not contemplate how he should maybe consider picking up a new hobby, maybe read some fiction for a change. ]
If someone's braindead, then do you think their existence is necessarily gone?
[ it's an unnecessary diagnostic test to assess where he can diagnose noa is on the very important matter of this philosophical debate. unfortunately, he may be betraying his genuine curiosity about noa a little too much tonight. oops! ]
And they've come to no conclusion in those centuries. A question debated on for debate sake isn't worth my time.
[ keyword being 'my' -- people are welcome to waste their precious seconds alive on roundabout debates with no answers. noa will spend his kicking around a ball for self-interest, obscene amounts of money, and trophies to put in his closet. ]
If someone is only kept alive because of machines supporting their body, then that answers the question already. Most of what people attribute to a soul is really in their brain to begin with. [ his eyes wander away from kaiser, quickly chewing up a meal to be savored, to the glass of wine. it really does irritate him more than it should to have it sit nearly full. ] ...You're asking me a lot of questions without giving your own thoughts. Are you trying to figure something out about me?
[ it's the only thing he can reason, because kaiser is so strangely curious about him today. "you miss me after all, don't you?" -- he would say it but he knows kaiser would just scrunch up like he ate rotten fish left out in the sun. ]
Oh my, you can simply ask if you want to know what I think, can't you? Sometimes I even answer. [ sometimes... ] I believe that's how conversation works. You should give it a try too.
[ though kaiser asking more questions than he gives answers is par for the course when it comes from him and not a specific attempt to elude noa in particular — kaiser quickly learned that people tend to enjoy talking about themselves and their own thoughts, which means that he can talk about himself less. the less clarity he offers, the more undefinable he becomes... or something like that. the more immediate point is that at heart, kaiser is a deeply private being. ]
I think that mind-body dualism can't be disproved, and I prefer to believe in it, so I do. Maybe the mind still exists in the braindead body, and we lack the ability to discern it.
[ kaiser then begins to eat again. he knows noa will note that kaiser did not answer the actual question and wants to see if he can force noa's hand at all before circling back around to it. ]
[ he is capable of having normal conversations, thank you, he just chooses not to. instead he has conversations about if babies have souls over fried veal brain. it's preferable to having inane talks with his peers as they try to posture an imaginary superiority over him. the downside is that they both dislike sharing too much of themselves with others, which leads to insane tangents and topics and flipping coins to determine who has to expose their vulnerabilities. ]
Believing in something with no evidence is just blind faith. Are you a spiritual person? Or maybe you just need something to believe in.
[ kaiser genuinely wants to ask what it is to be "spiritual", because he isn't sure whether they have the same connotations in mind, but he figures that isn't what noa is actually asking about. he finishes his bite of fish and will allow them to escape the tangent... this time! ]
It isn't as if I need what I believe to be right, in this case... like I said, I know that none of this can be proven. But I've read about it enough that I know what I'd pick if I had the choice to make one side objectively true.
[ can that even be considered belief? maybe this is what it's like to be a sports team supporter, kaiser thinks. ]
Is it blind faith to prefer fish over red meat? I think both are only preferences. Well... at least, both are preferences to me.
[ he acknowledges that there are people who have much stronger thoughts about it than he does. there's a pause as kaiser stares down at his plate — there's just a bit left. noa may be aware that kaiser's mind, however, has already moved onto whether or not he should ask to see the dessert menu... ]
You shouldn't compare a preference in meat to the existence of a soul.
[ kaiser knows this though, and noa knows it too, so the underlying "we both know that" is in his direct yet soft tone. instead of sighing, he reaches for the glass and takes a measured sip. he is not going to be insane and down this wine like he does his coffee, though he is curbing the urge to just be uncivilized about it. he's had to learn how to act like normal people do and part of that was understanding wine needs to be savored. despite his attempts, he hasn't learned how to do that part very well yet. ]
Interesting - you don't need to be right, but taking a stance is still important. That explains a lot.
[ perhaps because a good waiter has a sixth sense for it, or because they were being watched, it doesn't take long for their server to come by and offer to bring out a dessert menu. noa nods with a 'please' as his plate is lifted. the waiter, then noticing the bit of fish left, politely asks kaiser if he's still eating. ]
What, because people will call me a bastard for it?
[ it is, of course, a rhetorical question — what's a few more grains of sand in a desert? at least they're in each others' company for it.
but the waiter coming over is a convenient interruption. yes, he'll see the menu; no, he'll finish his meal, but thanks — for kaiser's many faults, wasting food and being rude to people just doing their jobs are not among them. he'll finish it up while thinking over the dessert options, washing down the last bite with a sip of wine before leaning in and pressing his napkin to his mouth. ]
... Shall we do one more coin flip before dessert, then? [ continue their totally normal conversation, which they can both do, because they have normal conversational skills? ]
[ noa takes the offered dessert menu out of politeness, not anticipating he'll actually want anything. he's not a fan of sweets and he speculates a lack of snacks during childhood is the culprit. you can't crave the taste of something you have no point of reference for. his real vice is salt -- even after eating an expensive meal, the thought surfaces an image of cup noodles after cooking in boiling water for a few minutes, firm and ready to be slurped up.
kaiser's interjection breaks that dangerous imagery, and for the better. noa gently shuts the menu he barely skimmed and hums quietly. ]
Do you want it to be about a question, or something else? [ because they're so normal and don't need a coin to dictate the flow of conversation, right? (...unless--) ] What are your plans after this?
[ "after this" as if he didn't make up a very spur of the moment dinner date just to see if kaiser would take the bait. ]
[ to that question, kaiser tilts his head up from the dessert menu and gives noa a look that conveys some sort of mix of dismay and the stoicism of a kid being very brave about getting his shots. he thinks noa can guess the answer to that question, actually, and he's feeling a certain way about that! ]
Perhaps read something, perhaps watch something, a shower, and then bed. Unless there's another mysterious event that I was not aware I had scheduled?
[ he's onto you, sir. not that it was being particularly hidden, kaiser is realizing in retrospect. ]
Why? Are you going to offer up a prize that takes up my time?
[ he's not going to keep up the charade anymore, they both know he gaslit gatekept girlboss'd kaiser into having dinner tonight. but also, kaiser had to have realized they didn't make any plans and still chose to take him up on the meal! this says a lot. ]
What sort of prize would you like? You aren't very materialistic. Would you like to monopolize my time then?
Oh... sure, that sounds good. That's quite valuable, and I'll take it whenever I can.
[ since time something scarce and in high demand — all the more so when it's the time of somebody like noel noa. kaiser has a deeper sense of the value of time than most in his age group, in some part because he really enjoyed drinking the "do you spend every waking moment towards becoming the best?" kool-aid, as loathe as he is to admit it. ]
Then, you'll give me some of your time. Let's say, about as long as dinner has taken?
In a roundabout way, that's quite flattering towards me. Okay, deal.
[ with that settled: kaiser looks up from the dessert menu, the universal sign to waitstaff to come over for to take an order. kaiser asks for the flan before handing the menu back. ]
I already know what I'll spend the time on. Do you?
I don't have a plan going into this. But sometimes that's more interesting, as long as the stakes are low.
[ he is not always making 100 chess moves ahead of time in the span of a minute! sometimes letting things unfold and playing it by ear can be a more enjoyable and pleasant surprise. plus he thinks he has tortured kaiser enough for a day, any further and he might need to assess if their relationship is bridging into possessive obsession. ]
[ actually, kaiser would prefer it if they could put down some more concrete boundaries about what this will involve first... and maybe eat a bit of his dessert for fortification, but he is aware that insisting at this point will make it seem like he's trying to run away from something. a coward he is not, or at least, he tries not to be. ]
Alright. It'll be tails.
[ if he says it enough, can he will it into existence? he's thinking it'll be tails, it'll be tails, it'll be tails so loudly that he may as well be mumbling it under his breath as he flips the coin into the air, catching it into his palm just before it hits the table.
without uncurling his hand fully, he slides his palm flat against the table and pushes the coin forward slightly, lifting his hand up so that noa can see it but such that kaiser's own hand is blocking his view. is there a point to making noa announce it? maybe. maybe not... ]
[ noa doesn't believe in the power of manifesting, but it is of no surprise to him that kaiser does. it's hard to not be curious what kaiser has in mind for ninety minutes of his time when he's so anxious about winning this flip than any other. as for him? he has no preference, and never has through the evening. low stakes like these don't excite him, so he has no need to win or lose. but he thinks he has trouble getting excited about anything other than a difficult game these days...
he peers down the coin when kaiser lifts his palm, expression betraying nothing as he sees the result... ]
Hm. Tails.
[ a dull announcement, but he thinks it'll please kaiser that he could wish upon a coin and his dreams would come true. ]
[ kaiser isn't so delusional as to think that he's actually manifesting anything, but it doesn't hurt to attempt to add some mental pressure to the situation. and it pays off in this case, so: yay yippee hooray! ninety minutes is quite a bit of time — almost an entire match, as long as it doesn't go to extra time — he'll make the most of it!!
and it does make kaiser smile just a tiny bit, though in a way that suggests relief more than smugness. it evokes a feeling of: oh, wow. something went right for a change! ]
Then, I want about 30 minutes of street ball. The rest of the time, I want to see a beach with a nice ocean view around sunset.
[ is this asking a lot or a little? put in an unflattering way, kaiser's baselines wants tend to be childish; to say it in a more positive way, they're rather pure. ]
[ noa isn't normally stupefied, as he's reasonably confident in his ability to read people relative to the situations they are in. he rightly assumed kaiser would ask for a one-on-one match, as he's never been shy about enjoying the brief times they play against each other. a "friendly" match without the external pressures of having to win, but with all the benefits of learning for a real competition with stakes.
it's that he only allotted thirty minutes to that match, and wants to spend an hour watching the sunset on the beach. that's excessively romantic for both their standards. he wanted to ask "is that really all?" but he doesn't want to make a discussion out of it. kaiser won the flip and his requests aren't egregious, so he will be rational as ever. ]
I accept. It's your win, you can use it for what you want.
[ he just doesn't understand why he's using it for something so... simple, and certainly pure. ]
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
no subject
[ what is the ego if not the dividing line between the base instinct and the inner voice of reason? living in a way that fulfills both is how people fight with their ego, achieve their desires, and carve the path to the life they most want. it isn't illogical at all. noa spares a glance to kaiser cutting his fish into ready made pieces, unsure what to make of it but not thinking it has any deep meaning either, as he chews his small cut of brain. only when his mouth isn't full does he circle back to the earlier question. ]
The religious community was a benefit, a safety net of sort, but not what I meant. It was lucky because she didn't believe in abortion. A person without those religious beliefs might have chosen to terminate the pregnancy given the poverty we lived in.
no subject
A gift from god, huh? [ don't look at him... he's not self-aware. ] Well, that wouldn't be wrong.
[ purely objectively speaking, of course. kaiser finishes up cutting up his food and takes his first bite, chewing slowly before swallowing. he doesn't have a particularly refined palate, and doesn't have a strong interest in eating for enjoying it, but even he can tell that this a cut above his usual meals in terms of quality and depth of flavor, so he'll pause to enjoy it for a moment before continuing. ]
Is that something you've thought about deeply? [ again, not that kaiser should talk, really. it just caught him a little off-guard, so he has to comment. ]
no subject
[ there's no proof his mother would have chosen a different path if not for her religion, only an awareness that her beliefs played a part in the decision. he isn't going to say that kaiser is both mature enough to hear this and trusted enough to not gab about it. speaking this openly on a topic many would consider taboo should carry that implication alone.
noa makes the last cut into his meal, forking one of two remaining pieces. ]
I don't think a soul is something we are born with. If it exists at all, it's something that forms through the culmination of our experiences. No one chooses to be born, but we can choose how to live the life we're given. That's a great privilege -- one often overlooked.
no subject
[ children who don't wonder about that can take the fact that they were wanted by their parents as granted, kaiser thinks. he also spent some span of his life wondering about the circumstances of his birth before concluding that there's nothing that he'd get out of pondering it any further. the fact of the matter is that he's alive, whether or not anybody wanted it to happen, and now he has to make that everybody else's problem.
that is to say, kaiser also feels no need to say that he understands to keep all of this in confidence. a german boy in a glass house shouldn't throw the first rock, after all. ] ]
... Then, from your perspective, that calf certainly didn't have a soul. Because it didn't have a single true choice on how to live its life, a soul could never have developed in it.
[ it's almost tempting to empathize with the calf, but kaiser won't. because he does have a choice — there is a certain awareness in the back of his mind that he has enough money, along with looks and fame, that he doesn't have to continue playing football, if he truly didn't want to. therefore, by either of their definitions, kaiser concludes: he has a soul, the calf did not. ]
no subject
two theories clashing without a shred of proof between them is the equivalent of watching two terrible football teams play against each other. manchester united versus arsenal? they're both simply terrible!
jokes aside, he never had the luxury of worrying about whether he had a soul or not as a child. he was too busy thinking about if he should either save money to buy warm clothes for the winter or if he should replace his worn out sneakers. as an adult, he has to worry about paying his taxes and kicking the ball better than kids half his age because he'll get called washed if he doesn't score at least once a game.
he washes the food down with a sip of wine, considering kaiser's conclusion only for a beat before realizing he has no choice but to agree. ]
That's right. It had a pitiable existence, bred for consumption and sold for parts. Though I'm sure I would be called a bastard by parents who lost their infants to tragic circumstance. [ he shrugs and brings the last piece to his mouth. yet it doesn't go in before he adds- ] There's a great deal of tragedy and suffering in the world. It isn't a contest, but one must have perspective.
[ then he eats the final piece of calf brain. ]
no subject
You get called a bastard by so many, what's a few more?
[ kaiser smiles, twisted and wry, yet also relaxed and genuine — it's not funny, it really isn't. but for some reason, this brief repartee fills him with a kind of malicious amusement.
truth be told, kaiser has never thought of his life as particularly difficult. most things that he's gone through have felt like something that simply had to be endured, from his perspective. to be passive and weak-willed was a survival mechanism; by the definition they've landed on, michael kaiser's soul wasn't actually born until 15 or so, when he realized that he has a choice, he has something he values, and that he might actually be strong. the difference between him and the calf, though, is that kaiser's soul could have been born far earlier or later, if at all — the calf, on the other hand, never had a choice.
kaiser has encountered tragedy, he's encountered suffering — as he knows noel noa has as well. yet the man before him has refused to allow either to define him by the rest of the world, and kaiser is determined to do the same.
he picks up the wine bottle and tops off noa's glass. sit there and drink while i catch up on the pace of the meal! is, perhaps, the message being sent. ]
Alright, so how about this. Where do you think that the soul goes after the body dies?
[ pardon him as he drops some conversational bait to give him a chance to start eating. it's rather conspicuous when he's got most of his entree still on his plate and noa doesn't... ]
no subject
he watches kaiser top him off with disinterest and only a touch of annoyance. mainly because he was almost finished with his glass and didn't want a refill. would a protest have stopped his dinner partner? it's about as likely or unlikely as heads or tails. if there's a message sent with it, noa is electing to ignore it by not taking a sip.
(it's in this moment as well that he realizes how little kaiser has eaten. has he really just been watching him eat fried brain while they debate philosophical matters? even after all these years, kaiser's odd whims perplex him.) ]
I don't think it goes anywhere. It doesn't need to -- without a vessel, a soul may as well be air. People concern themselves too much with the notion of afterlife out of ego.
[ he may have been raised catholic but that doesn't mean he's a good god fearing man. ]
no subject
... That's a question people have been debating for centuries, whether the mind and body are separate or one. And if it's one, whether mind precedes body, the other way around, or if there's a completely separate substance that precedes both.
[ he takes a sip of wine. he does not contemplate how he should maybe consider picking up a new hobby, maybe read some fiction for a change. ]
If someone's braindead, then do you think their existence is necessarily gone?
[ it's an unnecessary diagnostic test to assess where he can diagnose noa is on the very important matter of this philosophical debate. unfortunately, he may be betraying his genuine curiosity about noa a little too much tonight. oops! ]
no subject
[ keyword being 'my' -- people are welcome to waste their precious seconds alive on roundabout debates with no answers. noa will spend his kicking around a ball for self-interest, obscene amounts of money, and trophies to put in his closet. ]
If someone is only kept alive because of machines supporting their body, then that answers the question already. Most of what people attribute to a soul is really in their brain to begin with. [ his eyes wander away from kaiser, quickly chewing up a meal to be savored, to the glass of wine. it really does irritate him more than it should to have it sit nearly full. ] ...You're asking me a lot of questions without giving your own thoughts. Are you trying to figure something out about me?
[ it's the only thing he can reason, because kaiser is so strangely curious about him today. "you miss me after all, don't you?" -- he would say it but he knows kaiser would just scrunch up like he ate rotten fish left out in the sun. ]
no subject
[ though kaiser asking more questions than he gives answers is par for the course when it comes from him and not a specific attempt to elude noa in particular — kaiser quickly learned that people tend to enjoy talking about themselves and their own thoughts, which means that he can talk about himself less. the less clarity he offers, the more undefinable he becomes... or something like that. the more immediate point is that at heart, kaiser is a deeply private being. ]
I think that mind-body dualism can't be disproved, and I prefer to believe in it, so I do. Maybe the mind still exists in the braindead body, and we lack the ability to discern it.
[ kaiser then begins to eat again. he knows noa will note that kaiser did not answer the actual question and wants to see if he can force noa's hand at all before circling back around to it. ]
no subject
[ he is capable of having normal conversations, thank you, he just chooses not to. instead he has conversations about if babies have souls over fried veal brain. it's preferable to having inane talks with his peers as they try to posture an imaginary superiority over him. the downside is that they both dislike sharing too much of themselves with others, which leads to insane tangents and topics and flipping coins to determine who has to expose their vulnerabilities. ]
Believing in something with no evidence is just blind faith. Are you a spiritual person? Or maybe you just need something to believe in.
no subject
It isn't as if I need what I believe to be right, in this case... like I said, I know that none of this can be proven. But I've read about it enough that I know what I'd pick if I had the choice to make one side objectively true.
[ can that even be considered belief? maybe this is what it's like to be a sports team supporter, kaiser thinks. ]
Is it blind faith to prefer fish over red meat? I think both are only preferences. Well... at least, both are preferences to me.
[ he acknowledges that there are people who have much stronger thoughts about it than he does. there's a pause as kaiser stares down at his plate — there's just a bit left. noa may be aware that kaiser's mind, however, has already moved onto whether or not he should ask to see the dessert menu... ]
no subject
[ kaiser knows this though, and noa knows it too, so the underlying "we both know that" is in his direct yet soft tone. instead of sighing, he reaches for the glass and takes a measured sip. he is not going to be insane and down this wine like he does his coffee, though he is curbing the urge to just be uncivilized about it. he's had to learn how to act like normal people do and part of that was understanding wine needs to be savored. despite his attempts, he hasn't learned how to do that part very well yet. ]
Interesting - you don't need to be right, but taking a stance is still important. That explains a lot.
[ perhaps because a good waiter has a sixth sense for it, or because they were being watched, it doesn't take long for their server to come by and offer to bring out a dessert menu. noa nods with a 'please' as his plate is lifted. the waiter, then noticing the bit of fish left, politely asks kaiser if he's still eating. ]
no subject
[ it is, of course, a rhetorical question — what's a few more grains of sand in a desert? at least they're in each others' company for it.
but the waiter coming over is a convenient interruption. yes, he'll see the menu; no, he'll finish his meal, but thanks — for kaiser's many faults, wasting food and being rude to people just doing their jobs are not among them. he'll finish it up while thinking over the dessert options, washing down the last bite with a sip of wine before leaning in and pressing his napkin to his mouth. ]
... Shall we do one more coin flip before dessert, then? [ continue their totally normal conversation, which they can both do, because they have normal conversational skills? ]
no subject
[ noa takes the offered dessert menu out of politeness, not anticipating he'll actually want anything. he's not a fan of sweets and he speculates a lack of snacks during childhood is the culprit. you can't crave the taste of something you have no point of reference for. his real vice is salt -- even after eating an expensive meal, the thought surfaces an image of cup noodles after cooking in boiling water for a few minutes, firm and ready to be slurped up.
kaiser's interjection breaks that dangerous imagery, and for the better. noa gently shuts the menu he barely skimmed and hums quietly. ]
Do you want it to be about a question, or something else? [ because they're so normal and don't need a coin to dictate the flow of conversation, right? (...unless--) ] What are your plans after this?
[ "after this" as if he didn't make up a very spur of the moment dinner date just to see if kaiser would take the bait. ]
no subject
Perhaps read something, perhaps watch something, a shower, and then bed. Unless there's another mysterious event that I was not aware I had scheduled?
[ he's onto you, sir. not that it was being particularly hidden, kaiser is realizing in retrospect. ]
Why? Are you going to offer up a prize that takes up my time?
no subject
[ he's not going to keep up the charade anymore, they both know he gaslit gatekept girlboss'd kaiser into having dinner tonight. but also, kaiser had to have realized they didn't make any plans and still chose to take him up on the meal! this says a lot. ]
What sort of prize would you like? You aren't very materialistic. Would you like to monopolize my time then?
no subject
[ since time something scarce and in high demand — all the more so when it's the time of somebody like noel noa. kaiser has a deeper sense of the value of time than most in his age group, in some part because he really enjoyed drinking the "do you spend every waking moment towards becoming the best?" kool-aid, as loathe as he is to admit it. ]
Then, you'll give me some of your time. Let's say, about as long as dinner has taken?
no subject
Of course, you'll give me the same amount of time if I win the flip.
no subject
[ with that settled: kaiser looks up from the dessert menu, the universal sign to waitstaff to come over for to take an order. kaiser asks for the flan before handing the menu back. ]
I already know what I'll spend the time on. Do you?
no subject
I don't have a plan going into this. But sometimes that's more interesting, as long as the stakes are low.
[ he is not always making 100 chess moves ahead of time in the span of a minute! sometimes letting things unfold and playing it by ear can be a more enjoyable and pleasant surprise. plus he thinks he has tortured kaiser enough for a day, any further and he might need to assess if their relationship is bridging into possessive obsession. ]
Go and flip. I'll be heads, you're tails.
no subject
Alright. It'll be tails.
[ if he says it enough, can he will it into existence? he's thinking it'll be tails, it'll be tails, it'll be tails so loudly that he may as well be mumbling it under his breath as he flips the coin into the air, catching it into his palm just before it hits the table.
without uncurling his hand fully, he slides his palm flat against the table and pushes the coin forward slightly, lifting his hand up so that noa can see it but such that kaiser's own hand is blocking his view. is there a point to making noa announce it? maybe. maybe not... ]
no subject
he peers down the coin when kaiser lifts his palm, expression betraying nothing as he sees the result... ]
Hm. Tails.
[ a dull announcement, but he thinks it'll please kaiser that he could wish upon a coin and his dreams would come true. ]
no subject
and it does make kaiser smile just a tiny bit, though in a way that suggests relief more than smugness. it evokes a feeling of: oh, wow. something went right for a change! ]
Then, I want about 30 minutes of street ball. The rest of the time, I want to see a beach with a nice ocean view around sunset.
[ is this asking a lot or a little? put in an unflattering way, kaiser's baselines wants tend to be childish; to say it in a more positive way, they're rather pure. ]
no subject
[ noa isn't normally stupefied, as he's reasonably confident in his ability to read people relative to the situations they are in. he rightly assumed kaiser would ask for a one-on-one match, as he's never been shy about enjoying the brief times they play against each other. a "friendly" match without the external pressures of having to win, but with all the benefits of learning for a real competition with stakes.
it's that he only allotted thirty minutes to that match, and wants to spend an hour watching the sunset on the beach. that's excessively romantic for both their standards. he wanted to ask "is that really all?" but he doesn't want to make a discussion out of it. kaiser won the flip and his requests aren't egregious, so he will be rational as ever. ]
I accept. It's your win, you can use it for what you want.
[ he just doesn't understand why he's using it for something so... simple, and certainly pure. ]
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)